These are the archives from 2010-2018 for the discussion forum hosted by the UNM Hobbit Society at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque, NM, USA. The purpose of our group is to meet and associate with others interested in Tolkien, and to learn more about the author, his written works, and his sources through discussion, guest lectures and academically oriented activities. This blog is intended to expand discussion among UNM Hobbit Society members beyond what meeting times allow.
I just had a question for everyone. What exactly are the goblins? Are they the same as orcs in the Lord of the Rings? Maybe this is something we'll discuss later, but I've never been able to figure this out.
I've always been confused by this as well. On the one hand, it seems that orc may just be Elvish word for goblin. At the end of chapter III of The Hobbit, Elrond gives the party more information on the weapons they had found. He tells Thorin the name of his sword, Orcrist, which he translates from "the ancient tongue of Gondolin" to "Goblin-cleaver. However, in the final paragraphs of chapter VII, Gandalf describes the inhabitants of the Grey Mountains as "goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description." This suggests that either those three are distinct species/races or possibly that the first two are just subdivisions of orcs. We learn in The Lord of The Rings that orcs aren't all the same. If anyone knows more about this it would be very interesting to know.
According to The Silmarillion (and greatly oversimplified, so forgive me), when Morgoth (Sauron's old boss) grew jealous of all the good things all the other Valar created on earth, he set about making things himself. But because they didn't have approval from Illuvatar, they were perverted and demented. Goblins are essentially Morgoth's answer to Dwarves. Orcs, on the other hand, have a much sadder story. They were Elves of a certain kind (the name escapes me at present) who were taken captive by Morgoth and his agents. They were tortured and mutilated until they forgot who they were and became orc :C Uruk Hai are a mixed breed of Orcs and Goblins. Ew.
2 comments:
I've always been confused by this as well. On the one hand, it seems that orc may just be Elvish word for goblin. At the end of chapter III of The Hobbit, Elrond gives the party more information on the weapons they had found. He tells Thorin the name of his sword, Orcrist, which he translates from "the ancient tongue of Gondolin" to "Goblin-cleaver. However, in the final paragraphs of chapter VII, Gandalf describes the inhabitants of the Grey Mountains as "goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description." This suggests that either those three are distinct species/races or possibly that the first two are just subdivisions of orcs. We learn in The Lord of The Rings that orcs aren't all the same. If anyone knows more about this it would be very interesting to know.
According to The Silmarillion (and greatly oversimplified, so forgive me), when Morgoth (Sauron's old boss) grew jealous of all the good things all the other Valar created on earth, he set about making things himself. But because they didn't have approval from Illuvatar, they were perverted and demented. Goblins are essentially Morgoth's answer to Dwarves. Orcs, on the other hand, have a much sadder story. They were Elves of a certain kind (the name escapes me at present) who were taken captive by Morgoth and his agents. They were tortured and mutilated until they forgot who they were and became orc :C Uruk Hai are a mixed breed of Orcs and Goblins. Ew.
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